ROGER WEBB'S 2ND INTERVIEW.
“Can you repeat that please?" John asked.
"Like I said, It’s not Johnson Wilson, It's Wilson Johnson and yes, he is the no mark that kicked me in the fucken ribs!”
John looked at Jack and nodded once and then looked back at Webb.
"How do you know Wilson Johnson?"
Webb knew he couldn't say too much, because he would get dragged into other events and he didn't want to incriminate himself. "We've crossed paths on the odd occasion."
"Where would we find him?"
"I really don't know, he lives around Bootle, but that's as much as I can tell you mate."
“Who was with him?”
“I honestly don’t know that either. He had a hood pulled over his face.”
“Ok, going back to your full confession and co-operation, please carry on!”
“I did look after the woman in the caravan, but I had noten to do with kidnapping her. I got paid by the gang to give her some scran and look after her 24/7 until the trial. On the last day, a car came and picked me and the woman up and we were taken to the courthouse.”
“So there was the woman, you and one other gang member in the car?” John asked.
“Yes, and before you ask, I don’t know noten about them or any of their names!"
"I got out the car and walked around to the other side, that’s when Wilson Johnson and his mate came up behind me took the woman off me, throw me to the ground and kicked me hard in the ribs. After that, they disappeared. I got up and walked away. I had to get the bus home because the car we went in shot off. When I eventually got home later, I took a few painkillers and went to bed. I must have gone into a deep sleep. I got up late at about 1.30 the next day and was then in a hurry to get to Brum with this parcel. I must have hit the car because I fell asleep at the wheel. It could have been the bang on the head I had the day before when I hit the floor, or maybe I was concussed, I don’t know. I carried on but didn’t think the accident was that serious and there would be a death. I delivered the parcel to the address I had been given on a scrap of paper. I stayed down in Brum in a bevvy house until it was dark and drove back up the motorway and went home. I got up early on Friday morning and dumped the van and got a lift back home. I was in so much pain I called the doctors from home. I don’t have a mobile phone. I was told to go to the Ozzy for an x-ray. The rest you know!"
“So it was definitely this Wilson Johnson that kicked you?” John asked.
“Yes he grabbed me and smashed my head... against the back window and it shattered. I fell to the floor then he kicked me.
“I thought you said they took the woman off you?”
“Sorry, I meant, I was going to get her out the car first.”
“Why didn’t they just open the door, it was unlocked if you just got out and walked around it?”
“The driver must have locked it when he saw the other two turn up.”
“What were Johnson and his mate wearing?”
"Johnson had a cap, brown jacket, blue kecks or Jeans and some fucken big boots... The other one had a brown top on with the hood pulled up over his face, I didn’t’ see who that was!”
“So they pulled the woman out the car?”
“What car was it?”
“I don’t know!”
“Big car, little car, 4wheel drive?”
“It was big!”
“Light colour, it was white, I think!”
John looked at his paperwork again. “OK, let’s say they wanted the girl and they used your head to open the window. Why would they kick you when you had already fallen to the floor and was out the way, did you have a knife or anything?”
“NO, I DID NOT!” Webb said out loud, shaking his head.
"Now, let’s be clear, you the woman and a driver were the only people in the car when you drove to the court and two others walked up?
Did the driver get out the car?
“On the CCTV at one time shows there were 4 people standing by the car and you on the floor!”
“Perhaps he did then.”
“Was it left-hand drive?”
John looked in his folder again.
“If the car drove away from the courthouse we haven’t got all the gang members, have we? You're probably better off in here at the moment?” Webb froze staring at John and dropped his head once more.
“Right let’s go back to the beginning, you said you did look after the woman!”
“Where was this caravan parked?”
“In a small empty building, it’s on a piece of wasteland on Scott road just down from the Scott Arms ale house!”
"So on Tuesday you and someone else, who you don’t know, took the girl in a car, that you don’t know the make of to the court. You were getting her out of the car to, do what?"
“I was told to walk her into the courtroom and sit her in the gallery looking down at the bloke in the box giving evidence. If the judge let the gang members off, I was to leave her in the courthouse and walk away.”
“So you got up off the floor and got the bus back home, face covered in blood, you arrived home late, got into bed, fell into a deep sleep and then got up late! You then drove your van to Birmingham at high speed!"
“Why so fast?”
“The parcel had to be delivered before 5 o’clock mate!”
“Because I was told everyone finishes work at 5 and go home, so there wouldn't be anyone to give the parcel too!”
"So you are telling me you delivered a large parcel that could have been...a bomb, for some bloke in a pub that paid you cash, to an office, and you don’t remember the name of the company or the address?”
“Yes, I never thought about that ya know!" Webb said waving his finger at John.
John looked back at his folder shaking his head. "By this time you had obviously seen the amount of damage to your van and then you then tried to hide your van in the sea."
“How did you get from Llandudno to the hospital?
“A mate picked me up and took me.”
"What’s his name?"
"We need to speak to him, I think he could have been in the van with you when it collided with the BMW!"
"Oh no, I remember now, I called a taxi!"
"You don’t have a mobile phone!"
John sat shaking his head again, “it’s all a load of garbage isn’t it?!”
John collected all the paperwork together again and put it back in the folders. Then he reached for the tape recorder and said: “interview terminated at 14.35"
Webb looked at John and then his solicitor, “what’s wrong?” he asked with a surprised look on his face.
John stood up and tucked his tie into his trousers again. “You are wasting our time; there are more holes in your so-called confession than there are on the M6!”
"It’s the truth, honest!” Webb said.
"I need ten minutes!” with that John grabbed his phone, the files and left the police constable with Webb and his solicitor still sitting at the desk. Jack followed John out.
"What’s wrong, Gov?” he said.
"Nothing really, I just need to find something out and give him time to have a think."
John knocked on a door and poked his head in. "Who were the arresting officers that went to the courthouse on that day of the hearing with the gang members?" A policewoman raised her hand and then looked on her computer, "PC Simms, PC Holmes and me PC Poole!"
"What happened in the courthouse?"
“Two men took Mrs Sloan into the courthouse, we followed close behind. We had a tip-off from an unknown there might be trouble. As we entered the courtroom, two men started jumping over the chairs trying to escape and get out; we arrested them by the door. They are known to us as gang members."
"So the two gang members took Mrs Sloan into the court and then they were arrested?”
"No, Sorry, they went in before the women."
"So who took the woman into the court? Do we know who, or what the persons look like? Do we have any CCTV inside the entrance to the courthouse?"
"Yes we looked, both of the persons that brought the woman in cleverly hid their faces from the camera as they put their items in the trays and walked through the scanner; one had a hood pulled over their head and looked like they had a face mask and gloves, the other had a black peaked cap. One of them did ask security if someone could go into the courtroom with them!"
John nodded slightly as he tried to work it all out in his head.
"What happened to the cameras outside the courthouse?"
"Each camera, was sprayed with paint 10 minutes before the trial?"
"But there 30 feet in the air?”
“I know, when we watched the replay, we saw a spray can appear and the screens were blacked out completely, except one that did show a blurred picture. I think we have sent your team a copy."
"Yes, they are still looking at it now," Jack said.
"After the tip-off from the unknown, we got a call from the security at the court, when we heard the cameras has been wiped out we took it a bit more seriously and got there as soon as. We found long poles thrown in the car park with spray cans duck taped to them."
John shook his head.
“A long aluminium pole with a leaver over the top and a long piece of string dangling down when they pulled the string the leaver pressed the plastic bit on the top and out came the paint.”
“Whatever next?” John said smiling at her.
"Ok, can you have a look to see if you can find something on a name for me, Wilson Johnson, no fixed abode but is here in Liverpool somewhere!”
With that John turned to go and then he turned back again, “Can you also ring round the local car dealers to see if anyone has had a rear nearside passenger door window replaced recently, all we have, is the car is big, new and light coloured maybe white. That's the car that drove off from the courthouse and in there, was another gang member!” John walked back out with Jack following him.
“Now what, John?”
“We will try Webb once more!”
Jack and John Went back into the room and sat down. John switched the tape back on and said myself DCI Clews and PC Ashton have re-entered the room and continuing with the interview at 14.55 with Roger Webb and his solicitor Mr Davidson.
“Let’s start from the beginning again!” John Said.
They sat and went through it all again but nothing had changed. At 15.35 John reached for the tape player. “Put him back in the cell, we will be back in a couple of days!”
“OK, OK!” Webb said, staring at John again. John sat back in his chair and folded his arms. He could tell Webb was thinking hard.
Webb looked around at his solicitor who looked back at him and raised his eyebrows.
Webb looked back at John and with his elbows on the desk he dropped his head and wrapped his left hand around his fist.
“I looked after the woman from Sunday just gone. I told the gang, I wouldn’t be involved in the court case or anything else. I was supposed to get paid £200 cash when they picked her up and took her away, I would have been made up with that money. When the car drove off, there where 4 gang members and the woman, she was tied up in the boot, her mouth was taped up and she had a blindfold on. As they pulled out of the gate to the compound another car pulled in, Johnson and his mate got out and they dragged me into the car.”
“What was the make of this car?” John asked.
"I don’t know, I had something pulled over my head and my hands were tied together. When we got there Johnson pulled me out of the car and ripped the hood off, my hands were still tied up, and then he marched me over to the car with the woman in. The back window was open at first and Johnson ripped the phone out of one of the gang members hands, threw it away and the window went back up. That’s when he opened it again with my head and threw me to the floor. I didn’t want to get involved so I stayed on the floor, I wanted noten to do with it all. The driver was still in the car and the man in the back seat got out with the woman who was still blindfolded!"
"I thought you said there were 4 gang members!"
There were 4 when they left the compound but I only saw the driver and one in the back who got out holding the woman's arm, then for some reason, he let her go and lifted his hands above his head as the other person that was with Johnson walked over. He jumped in the front passenger seat as Johnson and his mate walked the Sloan woman into the court that’s when he kicked me in the ribs. The car she came in took off with the two gang members in and left me on the floor still with my hand’s tide. I did get up eventually, I rubbed the rope on a corner of a building to untie my hands and got the bus. The bus driver was sound, he would remember me because I had noten in my pockets, no money and he could see I was in a bad way, so he let me on. The rest is as I said. The car accident was an accident, I did fall asleep at the wheel and drove on, but I didn’t mean to hurt anyone I swear!”
Webb and John sat Staring at each other. John's cheeks were moving as he forced his teeth together continuously. He sat quiet and went through it all in his mind and then he said, “If you didn’t think you had caused a bad accident, why did you try to hide your van in the sea?”
Webb went to speak as John interrupted him and said: “And the mirror was not broken on the driver’s side when I looked at the van on Friday!”
John reached for the tape players and said "Interview terminated at 16.38" and then he switched them off. "Take him back to the cell please Constable!" John said as he picked his phone up and dropped in into his top pocket.
Webb was shouting abuse as he was taken out. With that John and Jack collected their things and left the room. They went out into the corridor again and knocked on the same door as before. As he pushed it open he said, “any luck with the name?”
“No, not yet, still working on him but the car is a white BMW X5!” John smiled, “Good work, well done!" Then he said. "Apparently, Wilson Johnson lives in Bootle if that's any help!"
PC Poole nodded as she typed something on her keyboard looking at the screen.
"Let us know down in Birmingham if you find anything on him and I'll leave the BMW X5 with you guys to find, and there were two gang members in it, not one as I said earlier!”
John closed the door. “Home I think Jack; we are done here for the time being.”
As they got in the car to drive back to Birmingham John said: “He doesn’t realise he will be in the same prison as the gang members, I hope there a forgiving bunch!”
Jack smiled as his phone rang. “Hello, Ashton…!” “Go on…!” “No, it must be someone else surely…!” “Oh, I’ll let John know…!” “OK love, Thanks.” Jack closed his phone.
“What’s wrong Jack?”
“You are not going to believe this John!”
“I know why James was in Liverpool!”
“It appears that James Becket won the lottery Last week!”
“What makes you think it’s him?”
“They got hold of his laptop today from Samantha. The bank account that that was set up by Camelot in Liverpool for James has over 1.5 million pounds in it and the address he gave was the flat above the shop in Meriden!”
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